the "things you wish you could say" thread

[kaysixteen]

Random points, along with gratitude for running with what appears to be (for the most part) a reasonably-evolving discussion:

1) the one part that is not that is any attempt to implicitly retcon my remarks questioning the safety-equipment nature of lab coats with any suggestion that I have never said or implied anything like questioning the need to always wear goggles in the lab.  We were obviously required to do this 45 years ago in hs, even when the teacher did monopolize the wearing of the white lab coat (always white then) in his lab.  I am assuming that if lab coats are necessary equipment, some eye-opening cartoon lightbulb moment occurred at some point in the 21st c to induce colleges to start requiring such, and I assume, further, that if the coats need not be white, or necessarily look like a lab coat as traditionally publicly conceived of, that students are given a list of acceptable lab attire, and where such attire may be acquired.  Someone here also mentioned that some such coats are actually disposable, such as razor blades?

2) It is good that one realizes that TAs should not be expected to physically confront cheaters.   Even just one cheater.   Nothing really very good could almost certainly be expected to come from doing that.

3) Comparing these young TAs to lifeguards is an illegitimate analogy.  Lifeguards, in addition to their having been physically tested to ensure that they are up to the job, are at least law enforcement-adjacent individuals, and one seeking to become a LG knows that this is a vital component of their job.  Society also knows this, which minimizes the likelihood that the LGs will be told to go pound sand by disobedient, disruptive punks doing dangerous things in or around the water.   Minimizes of course does not mean eliminates, which is why LGs also (at least mostly) get the sort of societal respect which means that when they are not obeyed, cops or other authority figures who might then be summoned by the LGs believe the LGs and enforce their wishes.  And expect to be on occasion called to do exactly that.  23yo grad students applying for a lab TAship, otoh, are mainly looking for a way to finance grad school, and many aspiring STEM PhDs have no intention even to seek a faculty position, esp at the undergrad level.  They are certainly not looking to sign up for the cops, let alone the Marines.  And esp if they are to be hired without even being interviewed, really neither they nor those professors who will end up supervising them have much of a way to discern just how able any given TA applicant might actually be to stare down four punks who are taking a class they do not even want to be taking, are not compliant with a lab coat rule, and do not want to go away when told by said TA.

3) Sports refs are another interesting case.   I played little league and youth soccer in the 70s, and you more or less never saw parents or spectators arguing with the ump, and in the 6th grade my own coach suspended me from the next game for arguing with a game-ending call.,  Nowadays, of course, you see 'conduct codes' at these activities... and it still does not necessarily help much.  And many of these refs, some are teenagers but some very much older than that, well... just quit.

[the_geneticist]

The job expectations are clear.  If you don't feel you can do the job, then don't accept the position.
My chair and Dean support this (and me) 100%

Don't you have some papers to grade or manuscripts to write or books to read?

[ciao_yall]

Even working in a clothing store staff of all ages are expected to remind/insist customers follow rules/laws such as wearing undergarments or socks while trying on swimsuits or shoes.

It's called making your presence worth paying for to protect the merchandise as well as the health and safety of other customers.

[kaysixteen]

Thought experiment for you: try to get yourself thrown out of your local Walmart today.  Don't steal anything, or obviously break any other laws.  Just try to get yourself tossed out.  See how hard that is.

It surprisesa and depresses me that you  all seem to lack the obvious compassion needed to deal with the reality that 23yo first semester TAs should not be expected to be Capt. Bligh.  You can whine all about 'don't take the job if you do not want to enforce the rules', but most of these kids, apparently mostly uninterviewed for the job in the first place (whereas any 23 yo seeking any job teaching at any k12 school in this country, public or private, would never ever be given any such job without being interviewed by the boss), probably would have no clue that it would ever be a possible thing that any student in any of his labs would ever defy orders to depart from the premises if he showed up without a lab coat and were told to do so.  And would have no idea what to do in such a situation.  All stuff professors could discuss with him if they bothered to interview him, which would also allow professor to screen out candidates who really were not going to be able to do this.  The lack of empathy and comp=assion for kids in this situation often seen here often approaches disgusting.  And, of course, the teenager behind the desk at the WM dressing room can, will, and is supposed to, call mgmt over when customer behavior, such as disobeying rules, occurs.

I suppose I will think hard on getting to that paper I have been meaning to write... as soon as you tell me what you would do with that polite Southern boy who responded, 'yes, ma'am', to an order of yours?

[the_geneticist]

Well, if he had an appropriate Southern drawl (super charming btw), we'd have a chat about norms for the region if they called me Ma'am.
As an "honorary Southerner", bestowed by my very Southern in-laws, I'm allowed to make exceptions. My cornbread, black-eyed peas, and greens pass muster.

And I do teach a "Teaching [Baskets]" seminar for new Graduate TAs to help with exactly this situation.

Go ahead and start outlining that manuscript ;)

[Langue_doc]

@the_geneticist, you're expected to respond ASAP to fellow forumites repeatedly asking you to explain/justify institutional policies. (I once had a student demanding that I respond ASAP to her email.)

as soon as you tell me what you would do with that polite Southern boy who responded, 'yes, ma'am', to an order of yours?

This has gone on for months now. I would suggest asking for a course release so that you, the manager, could position yourself near the lab to fly (I know, I know, flying while wearing your lab coat is not a good idea) to the lab to rescue the 23-year old TA from the students with naturally underdeveloped levels of maturity who insist on entering the lab minus lab coat. That's going to be a long day, though, despite the course release. Most 23 year olds don't act like brainless bimbos--at least the ones I know.

Not sure if I find it entertaining or borderline harassment when a poster keeps following fellow poster around in more than one thread demanding that she answer his questions right away.

[apl68]

Not so much something I wish I could say, because I do say it--but I wish I could place orders for materials and service with vendors and then actually get them.  I've had to check up on two first thing this morning, one about supplies that failed to arrive last week, the other about service that has gone unperformed.

[kaysixteen]

You are trying very hard to bait me into saying something you think you could complain about again, in hopes of getting moderators to defenestrate me.   It seems a goal, nay, almost an obsession of yours.   I am tempted.

[paultuttle]

Not so much something I wish I could say, because I do say it--but I wish I could place orders for materials and service with vendors and then actually get them.  I've had to check up on two first thing this morning, one about supplies that failed to arrive last week, the other about service that has gone unperformed.

Was the boldface problem the result of an address issue?

I'm asking because rather oddly, the full spelling of my address (with ZIP code, not ZIP+4) resulted in a "return to sender" official notification pasted onto the front of a 1099 form earlier this spring; curiously, the USPS abbreviations of that address (with ZIP+4 appended) worked, and I actually received the form over the weekend.

I wonder whether ZIP+4 was what worked or whether it was all about the USPS abbreviations of my address.

That said, moving forward, I plan to use the USPS abbreviated version of my address with the ZIP+4 on all business correspondence so I can be sure I receive checks and tax forms relevant to my side work.

[apl68]

Not so much something I wish I could say, because I do say it--but I wish I could place orders for materials and service with vendors and then actually get them.  I've had to check up on two first thing this morning, one about supplies that failed to arrive last week, the other about service that has gone unperformed.

Was the boldface problem the result of an address issue?

I'm asking because rather oddly, the full spelling of my address (with ZIP code, not ZIP+4) resulted in a "return to sender" official notification pasted onto the front of a 1099 form earlier this spring; curiously, the USPS abbreviations of that address (with ZIP+4 appended) worked, and I actually received the form over the weekend.

I wonder whether ZIP+4 was what worked or whether it was all about the USPS abbreviations of my address.

That said, moving forward, I plan to use the USPS abbreviated version of my address with the ZIP+4 on all business correspondence so I can be sure I receive checks and tax forms relevant to my side work.

No, it turns out the vendor missed their usual delivery day (They normally deliver in our town on Thursdays) due to some shuffling of supply routes due to the Memorial Day holiday.  Or anyway, that's what they stated.  We got the delivery on the following Thursday.

[apl68]

<Local Mayor>, I'm very disappointed in you, and so, I'm sure, are many others.  You'd been a good mayor up to this point.  You've reorganized city services to make the best use of limited resources, you've been proactive, and you've shown a lot of savvy and an admirable care to avoid needless partisan issues.  How in the world did somebody as level-headed as you've shown yourself to be pull something that ridiculous?  In personnel management, of all things! 

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what you did wasn't so terrible.  Your accuser even more or less admits that.  But it's the sort of thing that can do terrible damage to a civic official's reputation, it makes you look petty, and it was all so very avoidable.  Now you and the city face litigation, and you may have wrecked your ability to keep serving as our mayor in the long term.  Which would be a real loss to the community, given how high you had been batting.  It didn't have to be this way, if you'd just shown some more sense.

[Minervabird]

Copyeditor, please do your job.

[Antiphon1]

Thank you so much for adding new unnecessary hurdles to this already cumbersome process.  Making anything easier or more efficient might deprive us of valuable character building exercises.  Smooches.

[fishbrains]

Dollar Store pharmaceuticals can be quite the adventure.

Just sayin'.

You might end up with a good night's sleep. Or you might just end up zipped-tied, naked, on the floor in the back of a Megabus to nowhere with people taking inappropriate selfies.

I'm just not sure the Dollar Store quality control folks have much oversight.

Not a complaint.